Comments on: 2006-07-21 Trunk builds http://www.squarefree.com/burningedge/2006/07/21/2006-07-21-trunk-builds/ Developments in nightly builds of Mozilla Firefox Sat, 05 Jul 2008 11:00:57 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5 By: Oded Arbel http://www.squarefree.com/burningedge/2006/07/21/2006-07-21-trunk-builds/#comment-3742 Oded Arbel Sat, 29 Jul 2006 20:42:54 +0000 http://www.squarefree.com/burningedge/2006/07/21/2006-07-21-trunk-builds/#comment-3742 I personally like the suggest feature of the search bar and will be sad to see it go. I understand that Google suggest is not useful to <strong>you</strong>, but you have to remember that there is no escaping the 20/80 rule (*) - most people will not use most of the features of any software. But also, you have to remember the sub-clause for that rule: all those 80%, are not using the same 20% of the features - together they probably reach close to a 100% coverage of features available, so while suggestions in the search autocomplete may not be useful to you, its likely that not only its useful to someone, but to that someone its probably within the only 20% of the features that they use. (*) unless you want to go the way of Epiphany which considers anything other then bookmarks to be a useless browser feature, and I hear that they are going to remove that as well in favor of keyword searches with... hmm... suggestions. I personally like the suggest feature of the search bar and will be sad to see it go. I understand that Google suggest is not useful to you, but you have to remember that there is no escaping the 20/80 rule (*) - most people will not use most of the features of any software. But also, you have to remember the sub-clause for that rule: all those 80%, are not using the same 20% of the features - together they probably reach close to a 100% coverage of features available, so while suggestions in the search autocomplete may not be useful to you, its likely that not only its useful to someone, but to that someone its probably within the only 20% of the features that they use.

(*) unless you want to go the way of Epiphany which considers anything other then bookmarks to be a useless browser feature, and I hear that they are going to remove that as well in favor of keyword searches with… hmm… suggestions.

]]> By: Spy Hunter http://www.squarefree.com/burningedge/2006/07/21/2006-07-21-trunk-builds/#comment-3740 Spy Hunter Mon, 24 Jul 2006 19:39:12 +0000 http://www.squarefree.com/burningedge/2006/07/21/2006-07-21-trunk-builds/#comment-3740 Yes, it would be better to fix all the bugs than to remove it. But *all* the bugs should be fixed, not just some. If someone out there is willing to spend their time fixing this because they love Google Suggest, then that's fine, it's an open source project after all. But if nobody is that dedicated to it, better to remove it than force someone to spend their valuable time fixing its bugs. Or worse, to release Firefox 3 with regressions in the search bar UI! It just seems to me that this is a feature that requires lots of complexity to be added to the autocomplete code for little gain, because Google Suggest is really not very useful. Yes, it would be better to fix all the bugs than to remove it. But *all* the bugs should be fixed, not just some. If someone out there is willing to spend their time fixing this because they love Google Suggest, then that’s fine, it’s an open source project after all. But if nobody is that dedicated to it, better to remove it than force someone to spend their valuable time fixing its bugs. Or worse, to release Firefox 3 with regressions in the search bar UI!

It just seems to me that this is a feature that requires lots of complexity to be added to the autocomplete code for little gain, because Google Suggest is really not very useful.

]]> By: Fergy http://www.squarefree.com/burningedge/2006/07/21/2006-07-21-trunk-builds/#comment-3739 Fergy Mon, 24 Jul 2006 05:05:13 +0000 http://www.squarefree.com/burningedge/2006/07/21/2006-07-21-trunk-builds/#comment-3739 I like the new suggest feature in Fx2 and it could be useful for normal people too. If someone knows the first 3 characters of the word but doesn't know how to exactly spell it it will probably show up in the suggestion list. Suggest could also suggest multiple ways of looking for the same thing(synonyms) or how to finetune the search: "firefox" gives "download" "browser" "extensions" etc. People see the list while typing or while pausing to think about what to exactly type and think "yeah thats the thing I want". I like the new suggest feature in Fx2 and it could be useful for normal people too. If someone knows the first 3 characters of the word but doesn’t know how to exactly spell it it will probably show up in the suggestion list. Suggest could also suggest multiple ways of looking for the same thing(synonyms) or how to finetune the search: “firefox” gives “download” “browser” “extensions” etc. People see the list while typing or while pausing to think about what to exactly type and think “yeah thats the thing I want”.

]]> By: Ewok http://www.squarefree.com/burningedge/2006/07/21/2006-07-21-trunk-builds/#comment-3738 Ewok Sat, 22 Jul 2006 10:04:49 +0000 http://www.squarefree.com/burningedge/2006/07/21/2006-07-21-trunk-builds/#comment-3738 Better to remove the feature since people dont like it, it isnt useful, it achieves nothing other than irritation and bandwidth use and its a waste of time putting a lot of resources into fixing something which people dont want anyway when those resources could be doing something far more beneficial.... if they arent careful this is going to turn into bloatware with dozens of features people dont want or need.....hmmm sound familiar? Better to remove the feature since people dont like it, it isnt useful, it achieves nothing other than irritation and bandwidth use and its a waste of time putting a lot of resources into fixing something which people dont want anyway when those resources could be doing something far more beneficial….

if they arent careful this is going to turn into bloatware with dozens of features people dont want or need…..hmmm sound familiar?

]]> By: Jesse Ruderman http://www.squarefree.com/burningedge/2006/07/21/2006-07-21-trunk-builds/#comment-3737 Jesse Ruderman Sat, 22 Jul 2006 05:58:27 +0000 http://www.squarefree.com/burningedge/2006/07/21/2006-07-21-trunk-builds/#comment-3737 Current trunk builds only show Suggestions *in addition to* (local history) autocomplete entries, and then only when the autocomplete entries don't fill the dropdown. The dialup problem can probably be fixed, as can the issue of local autocomplete results not appearing until the server has responded to the Suggestions request. Wouldn't it be better to fix the bugs than eliminate the feature? Current trunk builds only show Suggestions *in addition to* (local history) autocomplete entries, and then only when the autocomplete entries don’t fill the dropdown. The dialup problem can probably be fixed, as can the issue of local autocomplete results not appearing until the server has responded to the Suggestions request. Wouldn’t it be better to fix the bugs than eliminate the feature?

]]> By: Spy Hunter http://www.squarefree.com/burningedge/2006/07/21/2006-07-21-trunk-builds/#comment-3736 Spy Hunter Sat, 22 Jul 2006 05:39:54 +0000 http://www.squarefree.com/burningedge/2006/07/21/2006-07-21-trunk-builds/#comment-3736 Ugh, a checkbox for google suggest? If people really don't like it, and evidence does point to that conclusion, why not remove it altogether? Slow connections make it annoying. Dial-up connections will try to dial just to get suggestions, and steal focus (with spacebar probably cancelling the dialing process, oops!), and the same problem exists with authenticating proxy dialogs. Then there's the privacy issues, and the issue of what to do with the dialog which warns about submitting insecure forms. All this for a feature of marginal usefulness in the best case, which clobbers a similar existing feature that is already about as useful? History autocomplete is actually more useful for me, and could be improved with a few tweaks (unify toolbar and google homepage autocomplete lists, for one). We should just all agree that Google suggest isn't worth implementing, and improve search bar autocomplete instead. If Google somehow improves Suggest (perhaps by integrating with Google's own search history feature) to the point where they put it on their own homepage themselves, then perhaps it would be good enough to warrant integration with Firefox. Until then, I really don't see the point. Is there anyone out there who just loves Google suggest and uses it all the time? Ugh, a checkbox for google suggest? If people really don’t like it, and evidence does point to that conclusion, why not remove it altogether? Slow connections make it annoying. Dial-up connections will try to dial just to get suggestions, and steal focus (with spacebar probably cancelling the dialing process, oops!), and the same problem exists with authenticating proxy dialogs. Then there’s the privacy issues, and the issue of what to do with the dialog which warns about submitting insecure forms. All this for a feature of marginal usefulness in the best case, which clobbers a similar existing feature that is already about as useful?

History autocomplete is actually more useful for me, and could be improved with a few tweaks (unify toolbar and google homepage autocomplete lists, for one). We should just all agree that Google suggest isn’t worth implementing, and improve search bar autocomplete instead. If Google somehow improves Suggest (perhaps by integrating with Google’s own search history feature) to the point where they put it on their own homepage themselves, then perhaps it would be good enough to warrant integration with Firefox. Until then, I really don’t see the point.

Is there anyone out there who just loves Google suggest and uses it all the time?

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